The following is a statement signed by notable continuationists including Dr. Michael Brown; Wayne Grudem; Sam Storms; Craig Keener.
https://propheticstandards.com/
UPDATE:
Remnant Radio reviewed the statement here:
Friday, April 30, 2021
Prophetic Standards Statement
Saturday, April 10, 2021
Cessationism EXPLAINED: With Dr. Thomas Schreiner
Cessationist scholar and top notch Bible exegete Thomas Schreiner interviewed by continuationists at The Remnant Radio podcast. As a continuationist I disagree with Dr. Schreiner on this topic, but it's always good to hear his views and opinions. He's one of my favorite exegetes.
My comment in the video [with some added links]:
If all prophecy is equal in authority, quality and accuracy then the following passages would seem to have no place in the NT.
Rom. 12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, IN PROPORTION TO OUR FAITH;
Why would prophecy be IN PROPORTION to one's faith/maturity if ALL prophecy is equal in quality, authority & accuracy?
1 Pet. 4:10 As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's varied grace: 11 whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God.........
If the speaking in v. 11 refers to the gift [v. 10] of prophecy, then this passage seems to imply that prophesying can be affected by one's attitude and soberness in doing so.
1 Cor. 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
Three verses later Paul describes knowing as if through a mirror dimly. Mirrors back then weren't as distortion free as our modern ones are. If v. 12 is connected with v. 9, that would imply that our partial prophesying might also be distorted/imperfect.
1 Thess. 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies, 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.
It would seem that the Thessalonians were starting to despise prophecies. Why? Maybe the reason Paul is encouraging them to test all things and hold fast what is good is because they were experiencing many people claiming to prophesy and their prophecies were inaccurate or imprecise. So, they started to give up on prophecy. Instead, Paul might be saying, some prophecies will be more accurate than others and that people should learn to discern good ones, from bad ones. To "chew the meat and spit out the bones."
1 Cor. 12
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts.And I will show you a still more excellent way.
1 Cor. 12:29-30 is often used by cessationists to show that not everyone had every gift. Or that not all had the same gifts[e.g. gift of tongues]. Yet, verse 31 has Paul encouraging the Corinthians to desire the higher gifts. It's not clear if he meant that to apply individually or collectively. But in 1 Cor. 14:5 Paul says he wishes all of the Corinthians would speak in tongues or [better yet] prophesy. He even says in v. 31, "for you can ALL prophesy". Apparently, 12:29-30 isn't prescriptive that no one should have all the gifts, but descriptive, that no one in fact has all the gifts operating at all times, BECAUSE God gives certain gifts to operate more regularly in some Christians lives than others. Why? SO THAT we might mutually need and benefit from each other. Otherwise, that could foster selfish independence contrary to the love that shares burdens [Gal. 6:2] and blesses each other with the gifts they do have and others don't have [e.g. eyes can help ears see, and ears help eyes to hear]. So, 14:5, 31 implies that it's theoretically possible, and an ideal to strive for, for all to prophesy and speak in tongues.
Do cessationists ever deal with 1 Kings 13 where an old prophet lies to a younger man of God [prophet?] about a prophecy that contradicted the earlier command of God to the younger prophet? After the older prophet lies to the younger one, the younger one believes him instead of obeying God's previous command. The older prophet then immediately prophesies judgment on the younger one and it soon comes to pass. In this instance, a true prophet not only can be honestly mistaken about a prudent course of action [as in the case with Nathan to David in 2 Sam. 7], but can outright lie and claim to be prophesying in the Spirit when he does so. Without himself being immediately judged by God for lying in His name. Even if we say he was testing the younger prophet. This would seem to line up with Keener's view that even OT prophets who had a history of being reliable in the past weren't prevented from proclaiming false prophecies/revelations such that they had to be immediately executed as capital punishment for abusing the name of God. This also implies that a known true prophet attested to by God in the past shouldn't automatically be believed and obeyed just because he was reliable in the past. Even Moses sometime sinned or mistook God's will [e.g. presuming to strike the rock like he did on a previous occasion].
For myself, I tend to think that OT prophets were more authoritative, accurate and higher in quality than NT ones, yet at the same time not always perfect as is believed by cessationists.
Num. 11:29 But Moses said to him, "Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the LORD's people were prophets, that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!"
Num. 11:29 is fulfilled in Pentecost. All believers are baptised in the Spirit [since I now tend to reject the doctrine of subsequence re: Baptism in the Holy Spirit. See R.C. Sproul's video "Undervaluing Pentecost"]. It's almost as if in the OT when the Spirit empowered a select few people they needed to be more authoritative and accurate because the hoi polloi (masses) who weren't empowered were dependent and hung on the proclaimations of those who were. While in the NT, now that all are empowered and baptized, there's more room and openness for all people to prophecy and therefore the requirements for accuracy/quality/authority are less demanding. An imperfect analogy would be like how a single water hose nozzle can spray a strong single stream of water, but a sprinkler with multiple holes can spray out weaker multiple streams yet cover a wider distance; and so can be more effective at watering the grass [i.e. the people of God]. This is why, as pointed out in the video, 1 Cor. 14:29-32 can have prophets' prophecies be judged without an immediate need to excommunicate those who give inaccurate prophecies. [Excommunication being the the NT counterpart to OT capital punishment.]
Even. Dr. Schreiner's explanation of Nathan and Samuel leaves room for the reality that genuine prophets can 1. mis-identify, 2. misunderstand/mis-interpret and 3. miss apply inspired revelation from not only themselves, but other genuine prophets [cf. my comment about 1 Kings 13 above]. How is that epistemically and pratically different from people who receive alleged revelations from ostensible prophets which may or may not be lower Spirit influenced impressions or even higher Spirit inspired prophecies? How can one even tell the difference authoritatively? I think of Jack Deere's example of how he received what he believed was a word of knowledge about a problem with "blood pressure" and when calling people out in the audience whether anyone had or knew someone with problems of high blood pressure, and no one responded. Then at the end of the service someone came up to him and said she/he had or knew someone who had LOW blood pressure. At which point Deere realized that he assumed the "blood pressure" problem was HIGH instead of LOW. He realized he wasn't being precise in his relaying the revelatory word of knowledge or prophecy.
Friday, April 9, 2021
Thursday, April 1, 2021
Don't Quench the Spirit by Sam Storms
Charismatic Calvinist scholar Sam Storms' sermon, "Don't Quench the Spirit by Sam Storms"
Don't Quench the Spirit by Sam Storms
https://youtu.be/dmcqMGaYAhs
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