Table Charismata Matters

Friday, August 16, 2013

Steve Hays on Cessationism


In a matter of a few short weeks apologist Steve Hays has been able to post multiple blogs critiquing some cessationist arguments against continuationism. Hays has described himself as a semi-cessationist in the past. At the time of this blog posting Hays does not consider himself a continuationist. Neverthless, his insight, honesty and clear thinking on the subject is useful to cessationists and continuationists alike. In these following blogs Hays manages to point out many of the serious problems with the arguments cessationists often use. He does a masterful job at uncovering and critiquing the terrible arguments that some cessationists employ. To be fair, he also gives critiques of some continuationists and continuationist arguments. I've listed the blogs from the oldest to the newest so that one can get a sense of the flow of the argument between Steve and his interlocutors. Being a continuationist myself, I've contributed comments to many of these blogs. I'll be adding to the list whenever appropriate.

Note: I usually didn't include Steve's blogs where he only posted an external link to someone else's webpage article. If I did, it was because there were immediate comments in that blog and Steve aggressively interacted with the comments. That means it's possible that such blogs (which were merely links) may eventually (down the line) have comments in them which Steve interacts with. Those blogs will not have been included in the list below because they remained comment free early on. Sometimes I've also included blogs posted by other Triabloggers because Steve decided to make insightful comments or respond to other comments at the bottom.



Was Kathryn Kuhlman a charlatan?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/07/was-kathryn-kuhlman-charlatan.html

Christian debunkers
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/07/christian-debunkers.html

Skeptical cessationism
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/07/skeptical-cessationism.html

Healing a few
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/healing-few.html

Debunking continuationism
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/debunking-continuationism.html

Is continuationism false by definition?
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/is-continuationism-false-by-definition.html

Mediate and immediate miracles
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/mediate-and-immediate-miracles.html

In these last days he has spoken to us by his Son
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/in-these-last-days-he-has-spoken-to-us.html

The Church of Hume
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-church-of-hume.html

Strange Fire conference
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/strange-fire-conference.html

Can God be chained?
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/can-god-be-chained.html

What is prophecy?
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/what-is-prophecy.html

Hypocrites chiding hypocrites
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/hypocrites-chiding-hypocrites.html

"Extrabiblical revelation"
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/extrabiblical-revelation.html

Primary and secondary sources
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/primary-and-secondary-sources.html

"Sign-gifts"
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/sign-gifts.html

Apostolic signs
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/apostolic-signs.html

Butler for the prosecution
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/butler-for-prosecution.html

Speaking in tongues
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/speaking-in-tongues.html

Ghost Hunters
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/ghost-hunters.html

Cessationism, testimonial evidence, and historical knowledge
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/cessationism-testimonial-evidence-and.html

Feminist cessationists
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/feminist-cessationists.html

Don't bother me with the facts! 
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/dont-bother-me-with-facts.html

Clueless in MacArthurville
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/clueless-in-macarthurville.html

Reporting miracles
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/reporting-miracles.html

Will the real Dan Phillips please stand up?
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/will-real-dan-phillips-please-stand-up.html

Laying the foundation
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/laying-foundation.html

"Acts 4:16-level miracles"
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/acts-416-level-miracles.html

Cessationism and selective standards 
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/cessationism-and-selective-standards.html

MacArthurite preterists 
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/macarthurite-preterists.html

Who's redefining what?
triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/whos-redefining-what.html

"Woefully naive and theologically Pollyannish"
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/09/woefully-naive-and-theologically.html


Preaching to the bathroom mirror
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/09/preaching-to-bathroom-mirror.html

900 foot Jesus
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/900-foot-jesus.html

In-house narratives
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/in-house-narratives.html

Is Wayne Grudem a heretical cult-member?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/is-wayne-grudem-heretical-cult-member.html

Cessationism and the argument from miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/cessationism-and-argument-from-miracles.html

Hume in sheep's clothing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/hume-in-sheeps-clothing.html

Purveyors of a false gospel
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/purveyors-of-false-gospel.html

Brown v. MacArthur
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/brown-v-macarthur.html

Fissures in dispensationalism
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/fissures-in-dispensationalism.html

Bob Larson
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/bob-larson.html

Deflecting miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/deflecting-miracles.html

"Gutless enablers"
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/gutless-enablers.html

Divine freedom
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/divine-freedom.html

Brown v. Turk
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/brown-v-turk.html

Judging by appearances
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/judging-by-appearances.html

Zero tolerance cessationism
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/zero-tolerance-cessationism.html

Bridge burning
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/bridge-burning.html

Seeing in a mirror
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/seeing-in-mirror.html

When the perfect comes
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/when-perfect-comes.html

Pauline prophecy
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/pauline-prophecy.html

Catholic miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/catholic-miracles.html

Revive Us Again
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/revive-us-again.html

Disambiguating the charismatic debate
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/disambiguating-charismatic-debate.html

Rearguard cessationism
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/rear-guard-cessationism.html

Strange bedfellows
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/strange-bedfellows.html

Short-sighted objections
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/short-sighted-objections.html

Soul brothers
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/soul-brothers.html

Perspectives on Africa
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/perspectives-on-africa.html

Strike three and counting
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/strike-three-and-counting.html

Are Biblical miracles "undeniable"?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/are-biblical-miracles-undeniable.html

George Müller: charismatic Calvinist
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/george-muller-charismatic-calvinist.html

Is this charismatic?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/is-this-charismatic.html

Denying the undeniable
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/denying-undeniable.html

Charismatic miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/charismatic-miracles.html

Healers and healing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/healers-and-healing.html

Demarcating miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/demarcating-miracles.html

Wedge tactics
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/wedge-tactics.html

Some charismatic demographics
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/some-charismatic-demographics.html

Clarifying charismata
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/clarifying-charismata.html

James Randi in sheep's clothing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/james-randi-in-sheeps-clothing.html

Strange fire or misfire?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/strange-fire-or-misfire.html

Shooting themselves in the foot
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/shooting-themselves-in-foot.html

Prophecies will pass away
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/prophecies-will-pass-away.html

The two witnesses
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-two-witnesses.html

Comical Ali
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/comical-ali.html

Critical thinking on modern miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/critical-thinking-on-modern-miracles.html

The latter day drought
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-latter-day-drought.html

Testing the spirits
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/testing-spirits.html

Putting God in a box
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/putting-god-in-box.html

The prayer of faith will save the sick
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-prayer-of-faith-will-save-sick.html

What cessationism is not...or is it?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/what-cessationism-is-notor-is-it.html

The charismatic covenanters
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-charismatic-covenanters.html

Throwing the baby out with the paintbrush
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/throwing-baby-out-with-paintbrush.html

Hiding behind a girl
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/hiding-behind-girl.html

Charismatic Christianity in Africa
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/charismatic-christianity-in-africa.html

Hodge on prophecy
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/hodge-on-prophecy.html

Same product, different label
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/same-product-different-label.html

Have the charismata ceased?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/have-charismata-ceased.html

Brown v. Waldron
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/brown-v-waldron.html

Postmortem on the Waldron/Brown debate
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/postmortem-on-waldronbrown-debate.html

Dreaming of Jesus
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/dreaming-of-jesus.html

Bring my cloak
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/bring-my-cloak.html

Fire and smoke
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/fire-and-smoke.html

The prayer of faith 
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-prayer-of-faith.html

Tongues of fire
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/tongues-of-fire.html

Redshirt recruits
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/redshirt-recruits.html

The Protestant Polemic on Post-Biblical Miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-protestant-polemic-on-post-biblical.html

Hacking nature
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/hacking-nature.html

"Modern apostles"
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/modern-apostles.html

On prophecy and prayer
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/on-prophecy-and-prayer.html

Keener reviews Strange Fire
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/keener-reviews-strange-fire.html

Piper on the Strange Fire conference
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/piper-on-strange-fire-conference.html

How cessationism denies the self-attesting authority of Scripture
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-cessationism-denies-self-attesting.html

Cessationism and continuationism, never mind the Torah, what do we think happened in the golden age when the canon was forming?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/cessationism-and-continuationism-never.html

Charismatic glossary
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/charismatic-glossary.html

My rodeo clown beats your rodeo clown!
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/my-rodeo-clown-beats-your-rodeo-clown.html

MacArthurite mythmakers
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/macarthurite-mythmakers.html

Was Spurgeon clairvoyant?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/was-spurgeon-clairvoyant.html

Was Martyn Lloyd-Jones a cessationist?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/was-martyn-lloyd-jones-cessationist.html

Lloyd-Jones on cessationism
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/lloyd-jones-on-cessationism.html

All or nothing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/all-or-nothing.html

Do you believe in miracles?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/do-you-believe-in-miracles.html

Fathoms of doubt
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/fathoms-of-doubt.html

Token faith in miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/token-faith-in-miracles.html

Swinging at the piñata
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/swinging-at-pinata.html

Naturalizing miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/naturalizing-miracles.html

Visions of Jesus
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/visions-of-jesus.html

Ufology and miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/12/ufology-and-miracles.html

The truth is out there
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-truth-is-out-there.html

What makes a miracle miraculous?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/12/what-makes-miracle-miraculous.html

Sancho, saddle up Rocinante
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/12/sancho-saddle-up-rocinante.html

Sacerdotal cessationism
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/12/sacerdotal-cessationism.html

Brush fire
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/brush-fire.html

Praying for amputees
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/praying-for-amputees.html

NT quality miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/nt-quality-miracles.html

Can the leopard change its spots?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/can-leopard-change-its-spots.html

Undeniable exorcisms
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/undeniable-exorcisms.html

Fred's decoy
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/freds-decoy.html

Instant healing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/instant-healing.html

To whom are miracles undeniable?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/to-whom-are-miracles-undeniable.html

Playing with atheist matches
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/playing-with-atheist-matches.html

Founding the church
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/founding-church.html

The healing debate
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-healing-debate.html

Primer on Eph 2:20
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/primer-on-eph-220.html

Modern xenoglossy
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/modern-xenoglossy.html

Parsing theological metaphors
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/parsing-theological-metaphors.html

Matches in the dark
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/matches-in-dark.html

Complete healing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/complete-healing.html

Weeding out charlatans
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/weeding-out-charlatans.html

Proximal prayer
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/proximal-prayer.html

Science & Healing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/science-healing.html

Spotting charlatans
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/01/spotting-charlatans.html

Compartmentalized Christians
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/compartmentalized-christians.html

John 14:12
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/john-1412.html

Miracles and medicine
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/miracles-and-medicine.html

A simple method for weeding out charlatan faith-healers
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-simple-method-for-weeding-out.html

Snake-handlers
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/snake-handlers.html

They shall take up serpents
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/they-shall-take-up-serpents.html

The golden calf
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-golden-calf.html

Massive elephants
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/03/massive-elephants.html

Pastor, Inc.
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/03/pastor-inc.html

Old gossipy wags
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/03/old-gossipy-wags.html

"Subjective dreams and visions"
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/subjective-dreams-and-visions.html

"Woefully out of touch"
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/woefully-out-of-touch.html

Raising the dead
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/raising-dead.html

"How to recognize a false prophet"
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/how-to-recognize-false-prophet.html

Blown about by every wind of doctrine
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/blown-about-by-every-wind-of-doctrine.html

Fragging Craig Keener
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/fragging-craig-keener.html

Life in the compound
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/life-in-compound.html

Shilling for radical feminism
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/shilling-for-radical-feminism.html

Taking shortcuts on miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/taking-shortcuts-on-miracles.html

The Monsters On Maple Street
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-monsters-on-maple-street.html

Apostolic miracles
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/04/apostolic-miracles.html

Does Cessationism Still Stand?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/05/does-cessationism-still-stand.html

The Spirit of prophecy
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-spirit-of-prophecy.html

Huguenot miracles
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/07/huguenot-miracles.html

Correcting Fred's falsehoods
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/07/correcting-freds-falsehoods.html

Let God Arise
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/07/let-god-arise.html

Guiding light
http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/07/guiding-light.html

God is my co-pilot
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/07/god-is-my-co-pilot.html

An audible voice
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/07/an-audible-voice.html

Jezebel
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/08/jezebel.html

Cases of xenoglossy
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/08/cases-of-xenoglossy.html

Charismata in church history
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/09/charismata-in-church-history.html

Gifts of healing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/12/gifts-of-healing.html

Heaven Tourism
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2015/01/heaven-tourism.html

Dousing strange fires
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2015/02/dousing-strange-fires.html

Exorcism and healing
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2015/02/exorcism-and-healing.html

Availing prayer
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2015/03/availing-prayer.html

How prevalent were the charismata?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2015/09/how-prevalent-were-charismata.html

Does God heal?
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2015/09/does-god-heal.html

Bubbleboy cessationism
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2016/10/bubbleboy-cessationism.html

Quasi-charismatics
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2016/11/quasi-charismatics.html



Recommended Link:

Links on the Subject of Miracles in the Context of Craig Keener's Recent Book
http://www.gospelcrumbs.blogspot.com/2012/11/links-on-subject-of-miracles-in-context.html



7 comments:

  1. Annoyed - thanks for collecting these. I haven't read them all, but I'm certain that Steve's perspective is clear, Biblical, and level-headed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Absolutely! You Triabloggers have a lot of great material posted. They just aren't as organized as they could be and so slow down or prevent new visitors (or posterity) from accessing the wealth of information and clear thinking arguments available (which is the one weakness of the blog format). During the early years Triabloggers weren't consistent in using blog labels (if at all). I'm glad you folks are are now. I like how you and Jason occasionally collect related blogs and post them in an organized fashion on a single blog.

      Delete
  2. Thank you A.P., this is excellent. Although I had already cut and pasted some of the material into a personal file of mine for additional study later it's good to have all these links here on one page. However, in looking it over I don't see a link to the post back in July that started this entire conversation which was the blog entry "Was Kathryn Kuhlman a charlatan?

    http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/07/was-kathryn-kuhlman-charlatan.html#comment-form

    I mention it both because of Steve's initial overview about the topic and my extended conversation with him in the comments section, particularly with regard to the verification of at least one person miraculously cured of cancer in her healing service, along with further biblical exegesis of 1 Cor. 12: v. 9, 28 and 30 concerning "gifts of healings".

    Michael

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't see a link to the post back in July that started this entire conversation which was the blog entry "Was Kathryn Kuhlman a charlatan?

      Hmm...I thought I had included it. I guess because I thought it was posted by Steve after his blog titled, "Christian debunkers."

      Anyway, I've just added that link, and you're right. Steve posted that blog about Kuhlman prior to "Christian debunkers." Thank you very much for bringing that to my attention. :-))))

      Delete
  3. On another blog Truth Unites... and Divides asked whether Steve Hays is a semicessationist. I responded to him there on THAT BLOG.

    ReplyDelete
  4. If it's okay with you AP, I might go ahead and add some of these to the Triablogue Master Index.

    ReplyDelete