Here's what a Catholic asked on facebook:
Do Protestant folks have any history of Saints with documented miracles surrounding them? Any particular holy people that they look to in imitation of following Christ? I’m sure there are probably many popular authors and preachers who’s words have lasted ages but are there sort of role models similar to how Catholic and Orthodox have the Saints as example to living a holy life?
Here's my quick answer:
I'm an Evangelical generally, but specifically a Calvinist soteriologically, Baptist sacramentally, and a Continuationist/charismatic pneumatologically. As someone else said, we Protestants don't (or at least shouldn't) place our leaders on a pedestal as "[super] saints." Nevertheless, a number of Protestants have operated in the supernatural. I'll list some below. I'll generally be going from the least controversial among Protestants to the most controversial (i.e. Pentecostal and Charismatic). Just because I list someone doesn't mean I endorse all of their theology (including their theology of the supernatural).
Charles Spurgeon (a Calvinist) is well respected among virtually all Evangelicals whether, Calvinist, non-Calvinist cessationist or continuationists. He seemed to have operated in the supernatural (words of knowledge, healing etc.). See my blogpost here:
Charles Haddon Spurgeon Operated in the Supernatural
https://charismatamatters.blogspot.com/2023/02/charles-haddon-spurgeon-operated-in.html
John Knox: https://calvinistcorner.com/john-knox.htm
Robert Fleming: https://calvinistcorner.com/robert-fleming.htm
George Wishart: https://calvinistcorner.com/george-wishart.htm
Andrew Murray was a Dutch Calvinist who is well known for his books on prayer and abiding in Christ. Many of his books are freely online. Murray had a ministry of healing the sick. See his book Divine Healing freely available on various websites like here:
TEXT VERSION: http://hopefaithprayer.com/books/Divine%20Healing%20-%20Andrew%20Murray.pdf
AUDIO VERSION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBE-JRCpc3c
The above are all Calvinists
George Muller is well known as being someone who got supernatural answers in prayer from God. Whether in receiving provision for the orphans he took care of, or in divine healing of people's bodies, or even miracles of weather (i.e. nature miracles).
See this recounting of a nature miracle in answer to Muller's prayer here: https://www.ronrhodes.org/the-eye-of-faith
There's the well known example of Muller believing God would provide breakfast for his orphans when his supplied just ran out. The above link also recounts the story of the miracle.
See Piper's "George Mueller's Strategy for Showing God"
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/george-muellers-strategy-for-showing-god
Later in life Muller became a "Calvinist" of sorts. See Piper's article here:
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/a-taste-of-mueller-and-his-god
Non-Calvinists:
A.B. Simpson (1843-1919), the founder of the Christian and Missionary Alliance had a healing ministry. See his books.
1. The Gospel of Healing: https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/the-gospel-of-healing.pdf
2. The Lord for the Body: https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/the-lord-for-the-body.pdf
R. A. Torrey (1856-1928) 2nd president of the Moody Bible Institute
"Divine Healing - Does God Perform Miracles Today?" freely online here:
https://charismatamatters.blogspot.com/2013/10/divine-healing-does-god-perform.html
Controversial Pentecostals and Charismatics:
Smith Wigglesworth is one of the most well known Pentecostal preachers who performed miracles. There's lots of stuff about him on the web. There are numerous biographies of him too. Excerpts from his sermons can be found here: https://smithwigglesworth.blogspot.com/
John G. Lake also had a famous healing ministry. It's continued by Curry Blake at the John G. Lake Ministries: www.jglm.org
Charles S. Price had a healing ministry. Here's a link to his book "The Real Faith" which I posted on my blog here:
https://charismatamatters.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-real-faith-by-charles-s-price_6338.html
Lilian B. Yeomans was a medical doctor who ended up having a healing ministry. Four of her books have been collected in the book "His Healing Power" (also titled, "Healing Treasury") available at Amazon.com.
Here's a short biography of Yeomans: https://healingandrevival.com/BioLYeomans.htm
I could mention many more in the past. When it comes to the present day. There are a number who I believe operate in the supernatural. I'll just mention a few.
For example Ken Fish. He's been interviewed on the Eric Metaxas show multiple times.
My favorite living/alive divine healing minister is Roger Sapp.
Here's Roger Sapp YouTube Divine Healing lectures Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyDsjUp0kUk&list=PLk66CkacB5wQTLNLKlkZVoLGjkztMMF-f
Here's my blogpost linking to more Sapp materials: https://charismatamatters.blogspot.com/2014/07/roger-sapp-materials.html
Vincent Cheung is controversial Calvinist and Charismatic. Some would label him a Hyper-Calvinist and Hyper-Charismatic. I think he's too harsh on cessationists. I have a number problems with his theology which I describe in my following blogpost which also includes links to recommended materials by him:
https://charismatamatters.blogspot.com/search/label/Vincent%20Cheung
Couple of questions:
ReplyDelete1) Are you familiar with Healing rooms? There is an organization that has these set up and you can go and get prayed over there. I have not been to these personally as yet though.
2) What do think of using something like sorites (i.e. vagueness) to argue for Continuationism? Suppose Joe hears that Xiu is sick, and no one else knows of it. Joe than prays and Xiu recovers in a remakable manner that baffles the doctors.
Now - you can say that these things happen. God answers prayers after all. However this does not mean that Joe has the gift of healing.
Yet let us say somewhile later, Joe hears that Gopal is sick and so prays for Gopal. Since all of Gopal's friends, save Joe are Hindus, the only Christian to know of his sickness is Joe. Subsequent to Joe's prayer, Gopal recovers in a way that baffles the doctors.
Lets say that a similar situation then results when Joe prays for Naoki, who is an atheist and Joe is the only Christian that she knows. Joe prays. She recovers.
You can see where I am going. If there is just maybe one or two healings subsequent to Joe's prayer, and within a short duration, we can say that there was no healing gift. However when we get to the fourth or fifth, then it starts to look interesting.
One other thought. I did a search on concentric Cessationism here and did not find anything. I think that that has some merit.
Ok. Cheers!
Different organizations have "healing rooms." Some claim to have connection with John G. Lake and/or the official ministry. As I understand it, there is an official John G. Lake ministry and many of these healing rooms are not associated with it. That's even if they use the name John G. Lake. Either way, many of these healing rooms have divergent theologies. Some will be more orthodox than others. Some more questionable and/or New Age etc. So, evaluating them would require a case by case basis when examining them.
Delete//However this does not mean that Joe has the gift of healing.//
That's correct. Many (most?) cessationists believe God still performs miracles. They just don't believe God uses the charismatic gifts of the Spirit when He does so nowadays, unlike when He did during the 1st century.
//You can see where I am going. If there is just maybe one or two healings subsequent to Joe's prayer, and within a short duration, we can say that there was no healing gift. However when we get to the fourth or fifth, then it starts to look interesting.//
No, I don't see or understand what you're getting at. OR, maybe my above answer already addresses your concern. Namely, you might think that some healings in answer to prayer are not on account of continuationism. Yes/correct, that's logically possible. Since, cessationists can believe in miraculous healings. And since technically, the difference between cessationism and continuationism is not about the greatness and impressiveness of the miracles and healings, but HOW they are accomplished. Namely, whether the charismatic gifts were involved or not.
If I understand "concentric cessationism" correctly, then I think we need to distinguish between versions that are based on 1. theology and/or the Bible, and 2. one based on experience. I suspect that most people hold to concentric cessationism not because the Bible explicitly teaches it or because theology requires it, but rather ultimately because that's how the church has experienced the charismatic gifts. Then they formulate a theology based on that experience to account for the difference in the experience of established churches and churches on the frontiers of evangelism and missions.
But just because the charismatic gifts seem to operate on the frontiers of evangelism and missions doesn't, by itself, tell us why that is. There could be a number of reasons, even multiple simultaneous reasons, why that is. For all we know, sometimes (and I suspect often) it operates that way because the mainline churches are no longer on fire for God. They have theologized themselves out of charismatic phenomena so that they no longer believe God can and does do those types of things. The Apostle Paul commanded believers to pursue and desire spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 14:1), and mainline churches for the most part no longer pursue them. The Apostle James wrote "you have not because you ask not." Maybe the mainline churches no longer ask or expect for them to occur, and so they don't.
CONTINUED BELOW
Calvinist Andrew Murray believed and practiced divine healing, though he may not technically have been a continuationist. And he definitely was not a Pentecostal. But here is what he wrote in chapter two of his book Divine Healing:
Delete//In our days divine healing is very little believed in, because it has almost entirely disappeared from the Christian Church. One may ask the reason, and here are the two answers which have been given. The greater number think that miracles, the gift of healing included, should be limited to the time of the primitive Church, that their object was to establish the first foundation of Christianity, but that from that time circumstances have altered. Other believers say unhesitatingly that if the Church has lost these gifts, it is by her own fault; it is because she has become worldly that the Spirit acts but feebly in her; it is because she has not remained in direct and habitual relation with the full power of the unseen world; but that if she were to see anew springing up within her men and women who live the life of faith
and of the Holy Spirit, entirely consecrated to their God, she would see again the manifestation of the same gifts as in former times. Which of these two opinions coincides the most with the Word of God? Is it by the will of God that the “gifts of healing” have been suppressed, or is it rather man who is responsible for it? Is it the will of God that miracles should not take place? Will He in consequence of this no longer give the faith which produces them? Or again, is it the Church which has been guilty of lacking faith?
What Saith the Scripture?
The Bible does not authorize us, either by the words of the Lord or His apostles, to believe that the gifts of healing were granted only to the early times of the Church; on the contrary, the promises which Jesus made to the apostles when He gave them instructions concerning their mission, shortly before His ascension, appear to us applicable to all times (Mark 16:15—18). Paul places the gift of healing among the operations of the Holy Spirit. James gives a precise command on this matter without any restriction of time. The entire Scriptures declare that these graces will
be granted according to the measure of the Spirit and of faith. //
A.J. Gordon makes similar comments in his book The Ministry of Healing.
AP - Thanks for the reply. I will get back to you when I have a computer issue sorted out. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteOk. So a common line given by Cess's is that while healing does take place, there is no such thing as the gift of healing that inheres in a person.
ReplyDeleteMy response w/ recourse to Sorites (aka the paradox of the heap) is that the gift of healing has to be possible. Sorites is similar to the Bald Man paradox. Let me post that here from Oxford Reference:
"Suppose a man has a full head of hair: if he loses one hair he will still have a full head of hair. But if he loses enough hairs he will become bald."
~ Likewise in reverse. If we add a single hair to a bald man, he is still bald. Add yet another and he is still bald. And another and another... we are still constrained to saying that the man is bald yet we know that he is no longer bald. There simply is a point where we have to say that the guy is not bald.
Like so if we say that the gift of healing does not exist and I point out to an event, say Joe's being healed upon prayer by Jane, and say Jane has the gift of healing, Cess's will say no. One healing does not a healer make. But what if Jane repeats the event with Joan and then later with Jeff and another, and another, etc.
Then can we say Jane has the gift of healing? I think so.
Ok. I picked up the Concentric Cessationist lingo from Daniel Wallace in this article. https://bible.org/article/uneasy-conscience-non-charismatic-evangelical
He does not go into it too deep however.
Thanks!
Raj
Yes, I've been aware of the sorites paradox for years. I've used it in various arguments. I disagree with you and agree with the cessationist. No matter how many times someone is healed by the prayers of person X, that, by itself, doesn't prove that X has the gift of healing. Since, it could be the pray-er's godliness that God is responding to [as per James 5:16b], or that person's "grace of faith" [as distinct from "the gift of faith"]. Or maybe the pray-er is exercising the gift of the working of miracles, or maybe the gift of faith, or maybe has cast out an evil spirit of infirmity.
DeleteSo, I agree with the cessationist, that no amount of successive successful healing is proof anyone has the gift of healing (technically giftS [plural] of healing). Also, I don't think the gift of healing guarantees that everyone he prays for will be healed. Only that he has more extraordinary success in praying for healing than normal.
On the one hand, as a Calvinist, I think people are only healed if God decreed the person to be healed at that time. Yet, on the other hand, as an extreme continuationist, I believe that it's theoretically possible for someone to successfully heal anyone at any time given God's promise that all things are possible to him who believes [Mark 9:23]. As a Calvinist I believe that faith is always utimately the gift of God [whether via the normally developed "grace of faith" or the extraordinary temporarily endowed/deposited "gift of faith"]. I believe God encourages Christians to always have faith for healing, even though God might not have decreed person Y be healed at time T. I believe we should leave God to work in His sovereignty as He pleases, but attempt to always have faith at all times for healing as God encourages and commands us to. There is an apparent contradiction in that, but not a real contradiction.
Having said all that, I think there might be times when God might supernaturally reveal that it's not His will to heal person S at time T maybe ever [e.g. it might be his time to die]. But unless God clearly and unambiguously reveals it's not His will to heal person S, then we have biblical warrant to do our best to exercise faith for S's healing. EVEN THEN, maybe faith might be able to "trump" God's revealed intention. Remember how God revealed to Hezekiah that he was about to die, yet God heard Hezekiah's prayers and granted the king 15 more years. Or think of how Jesus, speaking as God's messiah, told the Syro-Phoenician that He was sent to the House of Israel and basically implied that He wasn't going to heal her daughter. Yet, because of her persistence, Jesus healed her daughter anyway. In such cases, I would have to say that God ultimately intended to heal them. God's secret decree to heal, was hidden by His temporary revelation that it wasn't His intention (at least at time T1) to heal (thought it was at time T5).
Again, see this excellent article by Vincent Cheung. There is a sense in which, as he said, "Faith trumps everything."
Faith Override by Vincent Cheung:
https://www.vincentcheung.com/2016/04/08/faith-override/